Poor Billy Boy's
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The Interviews:

#1 Interview With Bill Berardy    (About 2:15 am June 5, 1996)

Present in the room are Sheriff Mike Smith, Deputy Randy Green, and Chris Morris, an investigator with the District Attorney's Office.

C.M. Okay, what I'm going to do, I'm going to read your Miranda rights.  I know you've read this and uh I'm going to read it out loud to you and make sure you understand it before we ask you any questions you must understand what your rights are. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can be used against you in a court. You have the right to talk to a lawyer or advisor before we ask you any questions and have him with you during questioning. If you cannot afford to hire a lawyer one will be appointed to represent you before any questioning if you with. If you decide to answer any questions now without a lawyer present, you still have the right to stop answering at any time. You also have the right to stop answering at any time until you talk to a lawyer.

WB. Yeah, those

CM Do you understand those rights?

WB Yes sir.

CM OK, having those rights in mind do you wish to answer some questions?

WB Yes sir.

CM OK. What I'd like for you to do is if you would sign this waiver of rights. All you're signing there is that you understand your rights and you're willing to talk to us.

Do you notice the bolded text? That's where they had my brother sign away his rights even though they didn't explain what he was waiving. A drunk scared person will sign anything in order not to get further into trouble.

Another excerpt from the interview:

CM How long have you been there (at the cabin)?

WB Goin on three months now.

CM Three months? Who lives there with you?

WB Al, he's a good friend of mine and uh my girl friend's uh moved out there with me

CM OK what's Al's last name?

WB I don't remember, I forgot. I knew it and then I forgot it.

 Doesn't this sound like Bill's intoxicated?

Another excerpt:

CM Have you been drinking this evening?

WB Yes sir, since about eleven o'clock

CM uh have you been drinking alot?

WB Uh yeah mentioned, uh from eleven o'clock on I guess we came in with a few beers and you know sit down and started drinking till after two

My brother fails to mention that he was drinking at the party he attended earlier the same evening.

CM Are you intoxicated?

WB Not really, I mean I'm pretty much sobered up uh

CM How long's it been since you've had any, anything to drink?

WB What time is it?

CM It's right now 2:20 am.

WB It's not, 9:00 or 10:00 pm? About 9:00.

CM 9:00 or 10:00 pm. this evening, early in the evening. Is that when you all got there?

WB It was about 11:20 - :30

CM That late?

WB Yeah, I was just drinking a beer then.

 If this doesn't sound like a drunk talking then I don't know what does. Bill fails to mention that the party started around 6:30 - 7:00 pm that evening at Gary's trailer. He also doesn't even know what time it is. Sounds totally intoxicated.

CM Tell me what happened this evening?

WB We was all up at uh uh man's uh, the guy that was shot tonight, Harry (he can't even remember the guys name because he's so drunk), we was all up to his house tonight he lives up the top of the hill an we was all you know having a good time partying and uh stuff like that and uh his mom or grandma or somebody pulled up I think it was his mom you know and he'd ran out there thought he was going to get his kids that night I guess you know I guess his kids were being dropped off that night and uh he come back in all ticked off about his kids, you know he, he'd being drinking and you know and so his mom or grandma or somebody didn't want to leave em there with him while he's drinking okay and uh so we decided well my girlfriend was gonna go with him over to his mom's or girl or grandma's house uh try to tell her she was not drinking you know and the kids would be watched you know well he got back over to my place and uh I was in there already waiting you know for him to come back and uh he come in you know kinda pissed off and not, he was still in a happy mood.

CM Can I interrupt you just a second?

 Notice how my brother rambled on... Typical of an intoxicated individual.

CM OK go ahead I'm sorry.

WB And then, uh he come in like I day, they both did. My girlfriend and him and, a, he asked where Al way, you know, and I told him he's in bed sleeping you know and I said don't wake him up said he's got wake me up in the morning to go to work you know - nah, I'm going to get him up you know, so I well you know go for it man you know you want to wake him up just as long as I'm up for work in the morning you know and so he got him up and uh they got to talking you know and I went to see where my girlfriend was she was in the bedroom and I was in there and he come in there raisin hell and saying I was be'in mean to her all that you know and uhm wasn't treating her right and stuff, you know if you know. I mean, I never hit her or nothing like that you know well he started grabbing me and he hit me in the face and all that you know and then grabbed me by the throat you know and Al come in there and tried to you know bust up the fight well not a fight but bust him up from hitting on me and stuff you know and then I got in the middle between them two cause they got into it and I pushed him out the door and he fell and hit my car and I got back inside and I closed the door and then that's when he and you know and I just made it back to the kitchen and that's when he busted open my front door and from then I grabbed the gun and and shot him.

Another rambling story. But he's not drunk. Right!!!!!

 CM Do you know how many times that you shot?

WB six or ten

CM six or ten?

WB Uh huh

CM Ok.

WB I don't know how many was in the gun or not.

CM What, what made you pick the gun up and start shootin at him?

WB I don't even know. I really don't.

CM Was he, was he yellin or hollerin or anything at you at the time?

WB He come bustin in my house and gonna try to you know hurt my woman or or try to whup my ass and whatever you know and natural in- you know I mean not natural instincts but just that first plunge and I just I saw it then and I grabbed it and without even thinking, you know, shot.

CM Do you know how many times that you shot?

WB No sir, you know six to ten or somewhere's in there you know

CM How long have you known him?

WB Just about a month or so

CM Ok, where did ya meet him?

WB A bank down on the lake. I been going up there, I backed up. I say about, I've know him for about a month you know straight, you know what I mean, I met him before that though, I was out the bank fishing you know and he brought a, him and his friend brought a, give me a spoonbill that they had you know from their uh, troutline, you know and that's how we first met. You know that was about two months ago or so before shh, Something like that for almost three months now and a, I gotta pay my rent again so had to you know, due this month, so it was about the first of that time when I first got that cabin is when, its three months but only actually known him for about a month. I didn't really move up there till I guess this month.

What did he just say.....

CM What did you do, can you go through where he was when you were shooting him, this six to ten times, or however many times, where he was in the house?

WB Who?

CM Terry

WB He was right there in the uh passage way you know, from the kitchen into, a, the bedroom.

CM Uh huh

WB By the front door you know, busted open, side door, front door, or what ever you want to call it. That's where he was, and then he fell out the door.

CM Alright, did you shoot at him when he was outside at all?

WB No

CM All right. Do you remember where you were when you were firing the gun?

WB Right there in the kitchen

CM You were in the kitchen the whole time?

WB Yes sir

CM What happened after he fell out the door?

WB Um, I went and looked. Um, you know I couldn't believe what I'd done. So, I, panicked a little bit and I went around back, behind the cabin there, on that lake side there, saw the lake, and a, threw the gun up on my roof and,. a, you know, and tried to think what to do and all that. You know, first reaction was to run, but then I said no I better stick around. If I run then I'd, you know, everybody'd be lookin for me anyway you know, so, I sat down in the living room there and just waited for you all to arrive. My girlfriend was lookin at me and sittin beside me. And when you all arrived, um,

A little further on in the interview:

CM And you say you were standing in the kitchen, the whole time you were shooting?

WB Yes sir.

CM OK, is there a possibility that you were moving around when you were shooting, or, or did you pick up any casings or anything of any casings that were the spent shells that came out of your gun? Did you move any of them around?

WB Nope.

CM The reason I ask is because, a, there were any only two spent cartridges in the kitchen. OK. There was three, six, there was one in the living room, there was six in the little hallway between the bedroom and the kitchen, and there was one outside. Do you know how those would've got there?

WB No sir, I mean I was just right there like I said there inside that kitchen there ya know, aimin toward the door there at the, between the doorway and the kitchen.

CM OK, was he outside at anytime when you shot at him?

WB No sir.

What they forget is that the crime scene was not sealed up immediately after the incident. There were police officers all over the house, not to mention Terry Ray's mother who attacked Bill in the kitchen. Those shells could've been kicked all around by the amount of people in the house. Plus, shells fly out in all directions when you're shooting that fast.

Also, the reason they are pointing the questions in this direction is this: The fatal shot hit Terry beside his nose and went upwards through his skull. They are trying to say Bill shot him on the ground outside. But Terry was 6'2" to Bill's 5'9". If Billy was firing and Terry fell backwards out the door, that bullet would have been travelling upwards when it struck his face. All the rest of the shots were not fatal, mainly in the extremities. Bill was just trying to get him to stop but Terry kept coming. Billy had reason to fear him. He weighed 200 lbs to Bill's 150 lbs and was way taller and stronger. Plus he had a long history of violence.

CM You stated earlier that when he kicked the door in the reason you grabbed the gun was just a natural reaction.

WB Well, not a natural reaction. It was just that, first, I mean you know, first response or something. You know?

CM Okay

WB I mean it was, without even thinking, I should have, you know, wasn't no natural reaction. I ain't never done this before.

CM Yeah. What were you thinking when he kicked your door in?

WB That he was gonna try to do something. You know man he was acting like he was crazy or something you know.

CM Was he drunk?

WB Yeah. We was all, like I say, we was drinkin vodka that night. Vodka and orange juice and uh then you know mixing it with beer and stuff so he wasn't actin- you know I've never seen him act like that before, you know.

CM Were there any,  were you all doing anything else?

WB No

CM Ah, any kind of drugs or anything smoking marijuana or anything like that?

WB Well we may have smoked a little bit up at his house but that was about it.

No drug tests done on the deceased or my brother.

CM Did you say something about a ladder? Did you throw a ladder towards the lake or something?

WB It was just down behind the house and uh

CM What did you do with the ladder? What was the reason for the ladder?

WB I just had it behind the house there. So you can get up on the roof, you know, to fix the roof and uh clean off all the branches and stuff like that up there

CM Okay. Why did you throw the ladder?

WB So you all wouldn't find the gun. I mean I wasn't thinking I was going to show you all. You know what I am thought about it and thought well I better tell everybody where it was at and all that.

CM But where does the ladder come in? Did you use the ladder to get up on the roof to put the gun there? Or did you

WB No. It was back behind the house see.

CM Oh. Were you throwing the ladder away so we wouldn't use it to get up on the roof and look around, or what?

WB Yeah. That's what I was thinking you know. But once I was in the police care there and I decided, I told everybody where the gun was and that there was a ladder. I was trying to help, you know, to get up on the roof to get the gun, you know, ladder you know that cabin up there on the hillside?

They are trying to make it seem like he was hiding the ladder but it was just there behind the house. They never brought it in as evidence at the trial because one leg was broken and it was unsafe so it would have made the DA's case look bad.

CM Did you throw him out the door the first time?

WB Yes sir

CM By yourself?

WB Yes sir

In Al Chaffin's Interview with police, he states that all three of them had to push Terry out of the cabin, not Bill alone.

CM So, when he broke in the second time, did you have a reason to believe you couldn't handle him again? Or I'm just trying to get at what you were thinking at that time.

WB Like he was more powerful than me. I mean I just got him like, you know, to there's that little step there, you know, I guess, he, you know, or just caught him off balance or something. Cause there is a flight of steps there and that's the only reason why he fell, I do believe. Cause when he was holding my throat, you know, and stuff like that and I was pinned on the ground, I mean it was all I could do to try to get his arm off my throat. You know what I mean?

CM Did you get it off?

WB Just barely you know cause, he kept, every time I tried to get it off, he just put it right back on.

CM How tall are you?

WB I'm five 10.

CM 5'10"? How much do you weigh?

WB About 160

CM 160 - How tall was Terry?

WB A little bit taller than me I believe. (According to autopsy report: 6'2", 200 lbs.)

CM Back to when he had you by the throat. Did Al ever put his hands on Terry?

WB I don't, don't know. All I know is Al was right there you know just trying to tell Terry to knock it off and all this you know and uh Terry finally got up, you know, and said, "What you want a piece of me?" and he was gonna try to start something with Al and that's when I stepped back in the middle of it and, you know, and like I said, I must've caught him off guard or something and knock him out the door or somethin and right when I slammed the door shut, you know, a couple of minutes later it busted right back open again.

Billy's story is very consistent and he hadn't talked to anyone else except the police.

A little later in the interview

MS Do you have any questions Bill?

WB Umh

MS Anything you'd like to say? You're in a lot of serious trouble.

WB Uh huh

MS This is a very serious matter, very serious. Anytime there's a death other than natural causes it's very very serious.

WB What's gonna happen? Do you know?

CM Well, what we're gonna do is we're gonna present everything to the District Attorney and then a decision will be made what to do from there.

WB OK

CM When he kicked the door in, were you in fear of your life? Did you think that he was going to to

WB Yeah, I thought he was gonna whip my ass,you know.

CM Did you, did you

WB I had to believe he had more strength than me. You know like I'd been set up, you know, I ain't that that great of a fighter anyway.

RG Were you still fearful for anyone else?

WB I thought he was going to hurt, you know, either Al or me or someone. Cause Al's handicapped with his breathing and stuff like that you know, I was looking out for him too.

Bill was protecting himself and his household.  Clearly covered under the law.

CM OK. Was he comin at you? Was he standing there yelling at you, or

WB He just had come in the door and that's when I grabbed the gun when he and he shocked me right then cause I didn't think he'd bust my door open you know and just had grabbed the rifle and was holding it up firing and didn't even think.

RG You want to add anything else?

WB No

CM Anything else you want to say?

WB Well, I mean, I regret doing it, you know, I mean I don't know how that good of a help but I mean I wish to say I hadn't and all that I didn't mean to do it now that I think about it, you know, uh

CM What do you mean by that? Can you explain that you didn't mean to do it?

WB If I'd been sober

CM If you'd have thought about it and it was to happen again

WB I wouldn't a done it.

CM You wouldn't a done it?

WB Naw. No. Thinkin back on it you know, like I said, I've never done this before you know.

CM You started to say something if you were sober.

WB Well if I'd been sober, I'd have never even thought of it. I guess maybe I should quit drinking but, you know its, you know, kinda bad I really regret doin it you know. Now that I'm sittin here all night thinking about it and eat away at my head.

CM Well thinking back, do you say, you wouldn't do it again. Is that because, can you explain that?

WB Why I wouldn't do it again?

CM I mean why you wouldn't have, if you could go back. You said you wouldn't do it again. Would you have done the same thing under those circumstances or can you explain what you mean by that?

WB No. I mean I don't even

CM Well if you hadn't been drinking, do you think you would've been in a little better control of your senses or something that that

WB Probably. You know cause, pretty good, what's the word I'm wanting? Like clean things out, you know, alot.  Like I'm working all day, you know.

CM Uh-huh

WB Like I do

CM Do you think it was the alcohol that made you do what you did? or

RG How would you handle things different?

****Note how RG stepped in and didn't let Bill answer the question about the alcohol (diminished capacity defense)?

WB Handle different? Uh, I don't really know. I'm just saying, you know, just basically saying that, you know, after sitting here all night that's what I'm meaning there. I'm just able to think about it. I didn't have time to think back a few hours ago. Sittin here thinking about it a few hours ago. It's just eatin on my head.

CM What do you mean? You've had time to think about it now. What do you think you would have done now?

WB What are you talking about man?  I didn't even bring it up.  I mean just sitting here thinking about it, you know, wishin I'd never done it

Bill was always sorry he had to kill Terry to protect himself.

Excerpts from the second interview, dated June 5, 1996. No time given. Present in the room is Ed Forbes and Robert Alexander, Chris Morris (investigator) and William Berardy.

CM And William, I understand from talking to you a little bit and you've indicated the possibility that you might want an attorney to talk to you before any questioning. I'll read your rights to you and then you can answer my questions or answer that question. Then when I'm through, before we ask you any questions, you must understand your rights. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can be used against you in court. You have the right to talk to a lawyer for advise before we ask you any questions, and have him with you during questioning. If you cannot afford to hire a lawyer, one will be appointed for you before any questioning if you wish. If you do decide to answer questions now without a lawyer present, you still have the right to stop answering at any time. You also have the right to stop answering at any time until you talk to a lawyer. Do you understand these rights? Ok, having those rights in mind, do you, what are you wanting to do?

CM Ok, do you want me to read these to you again? Do you understand that if you decide to stop answering, you can quit at any time and talk to an attorney or you need one to be appointed for you a, its entirely up to you. I not gonna, I'm not gonna persuade you one way or another.

WB I just don't wanna get myself in trouble

CM Well, I understand that.

WB Deeper and deeper, you know.

CM I understand that. What we're after is just the truth about what happened out there.

WB (NOT LEGIBLE)

CM Ok, that's, well, you know, like I told you awhile ago, we talked to the witnesses and we have a few questions that we, you know, we have some things that need to be cleared up.

WB How in the hell, how can you call them witnesses when they weren't even there?

CM Who, Al and, and a, (not legible)

WB Oh, them two.

CM Yeah, that's who I'm talking about.

WB Oh, I thought you meant everybody, the Mom and all them who weren't even over there till afterwards.

CM No, I'm not talking about them. The ones we've talked to so far, Kim and Al.

WB (not legible)

CM Ok. Well, as I said, in your Miranda rights you have the right to stop answering at any time or until you talk to an attorney. So if you decide you want to end this or whatever, you can at any time.

WB Is there any way to get an attorney? I mean, I had one guy but he was trying to get a hold of somebody (not legible) come up with the money.

EF The question is, do you want an attorney before any questions are asked? Before we talk to you about this? We have to know that? (not legible)

CM I want you to sign this and all you're signing here is, read this part here. I've read the statement and my rights and understand what my rights are and I'm willing to make a statement and answer questions. I do not want a lawyer at this time. I understand and know what I'm doing. No promises or threats have been made to me. No pressure or coercion of any kind has been made. That's all you're signing, you're not signing any kind of statement or any admission of guilt or anything. Ok? Same one that you signed last night.

Billy asked for a lawyer and how to get one.   I think by saying "Is there any way to get an attorney" he was basically asking for an attorney.  The interrogator railroaded him into signing away his rights by saying he had already signed them in the first interview, when Billy was drunk.  Remember, at this point in time, Billy had been up for a day and a half with no sleep, had a hangover, been severly beaten with no medical attention and was in shock from shooting his friend.  Yet they had him sign a waiver of his rights...   And this is supposed to be AMERICA!

RA Were you really afraid when he kicked that door in? You really got scared when you grabbed that gun?

WB Oh, yeah! I'm not no fighter.

RA Ok, the reason we brought this up, do you know his history as a fighter or a bully or a ,

WB I just a, going by the way he was, you know, hittin me and a had me down and grabbin my neck and stuff.

The officers knew Terry Ray's criminal record.

CM Anything else you want to say, or any other questions you need to ask?

WB I just wanna know what's gonna happen?

CM Well, that's what we've been trying to decide. We've been talking to the District Attorney today and a, a, that's one reason we're talking to you. We have some things we need to clear up. Things that Kim and Al that don't coincide with the things that you're saying and that's the things that we need to clear up. And one of the big questions is that still sticks in my mind is the locations of the empty rounds that were through the house. Now how they, if you were shooting in one spot, how did rounds end up in three or four different places throughout the house? You know a, (interrupted here by WB)

WB Just look at it from my standpoint,, if you were sitting here talking to me.

CM I don't know, I don't know. That's why we're talking to you. We're not trying to pin something on you, we're after the truth of what happened and try to get a clear picture, if we can of what happened, what was said. And that'd go in your favor to, a basically the trust is what needs to come out and when you have something like this happen and you talk to different people, you're going to get different stories. And I realize that. Some of the things, like the bullets and things that's kinda what needs to be cleared up. I'm not doubting your word or anything that you're saying. I just want to make sure we've got all the facts.

CM I'm to the side of this tape. I'm going to turn this tape over. The time is 3:33 pm June 5, 1996.

The police or Terry Ray's parents probably kicked the shells all around the scene before they finally decided to secure the scene. There was about 15 minutes after Terry was shot that those shells got kicked around, especially if Bill was pacing through the house, like a man in shock. They are just trying to break down Bill and have him admit to something he didn't do.

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